Do eco-friendly products work in the USA? Interview with Guillaume Linossier, founder of Saola Shoes

This week, I interviewed Guillaume Linossier, founder of Saola Shoes, a sustainable footwear company based in Colorado.  

Guillaume shares his journey from Chambéry, France, to Colorado, USA, and how he built a successful eco-friendly business in the American market.

What we talk about in this episode:

• Eco-friendly business success: Guillaume's passion for sustainable manufacturing and wildlife preservation can make your business more attractive to American clients.
• Regional differences: Discover how the perception of eco-friendly products varies across the US, with surprising markets like Texas.
• Customer service: Learn why excellent customer service is crucial for gaining and retaining American clients.
• Adapt your approach: Guillaume discusses how to tailor your communication and branding strategies for the US market.
• Product differentiation: Understand the importance of standing out in a crowded market and maintaining a local presence.
• Communication as a foreign business: When you should and shouldn't emphasize your French (or other) nationality as a marketing argument.
• Commitment to the US market: Hear about the need for a strong commitment to succeed in the US, including dealing with communication challenges and high costs.

This conversation is packed with insights for EU entrepreneurs looking to expand their business and attract American clients. 

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Every Thursday, I publish “The American Market Alchemist Newsletter”, with practical advice to help foreign entrepreneurs & businesses rise up, stand out, and scale their impact in the US market.

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Transcript

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (00:01.09)
Welcome to another episode of the American Market Alchemist podcast. Today, I have the great pleasure of welcoming Guillaume Linossier as a guest today. He is the founder of Saola and based in Colorado, but originally from Chambéry, so just down the road from Grenoble where I'm at. Guillaume, how are you doing today? All right. How's the weather in Colorado today?

G (00:23.638)
I'm doing good, thank you.

Whatever, it's nice today. It was cold yesterday. The spring has yet to come. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's the same. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (00:34.83)
Yeah, all right. So yes, I kind of here in Grenoble, it's the same thing. It's like a nice November day pretty much, even though it is May. Right. So can you maybe start off by telling us a little bit about who you are, what your company does and how you came up with the idea?

G (00:54.112)
Yeah, sure. Yeah, so my name is Guillaume. So I'm, you know, as you mentioned from Chambéry in France, and I've worked in the outdoor industry for about 15 years before launching Saola And out of those, these 15 years, 13 were in the US already based in Colorado. And, and then I left the company I used to work for in 2016.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (01:00.206)
Mm -hmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (01:07.244)
Mm -hmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (01:21.932)
Mm -hmm.

G (01:22.262)
And really with in mind, you know, I wanted to launch a business with a mission for the environment. And so I had two really clear missions in mind from the from the beginning. So it was to work on sustainable manufacturing and also help NGOs preserving wildlife. So, yeah, so so the brand is was launched in 2018.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (01:30.446)
Right, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (01:38.464)
Hmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (01:43.278)
Okay, very interesting.

G (01:49.436)
We sell in Europe, in the US and in Asia now. And I came back to Colorado last year to really refocus our growth on the US and Canadian markets.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (01:53.548)
Mm -hmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (02:02.552)
Okay, very interesting. So something you mentioned there in the intro that you're very, I said, one of your missions is to do things with sustainable development and sustainable manufacturing. And one of the questions that often comes up regarding the American market, and we're going to talk more about the American market specifically, from what you see, what is the value or the perception of environmentally friendly?

G (02:13.822)
Mm -hmm.

G (02:22.742)
Mm -hmm. Yep.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (02:30.382)
products for American clients? How much is that a, I guess a selling point or a value add for Americans?

G (02:40.032)
It really depends on the regions and the states. I would say, you know, if you look at the West Coast, the East Coast and like the Rockies where we are, it's a very environmentally focused. So this is definitely a great addition or help for us to be really committed.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (02:42.83)
Right. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (02:49.004)
Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (02:54.54)
Mm -hmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (02:59.822)
Yeah. Right.

G (03:01.746)
If you go to some other states, like more in the middle of the countries, it's less of a topic. So I would say, I mean, we do good business in the Midwest, but people buy first, you know, the products, the style, the comfort before the environmental story. But it's interesting also when we look at our online sales. In fact, the Californian market is about 25 % of the online sales.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (03:07.502)
Mmm, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (03:20.814)
Mmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (03:31.342)
Okay, yeah.

G (03:31.482)
But the third state is Texas, where I think coming from Europe, you wouldn't expect Texas to be a strong market for us.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (03:41.166)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it's interesting that you mentioned Texas. I think Texas has a lot of stereotypes around it that are, that are becoming less and less true. And I, and I say that because recently I interviewed a founder of a company called Absolute Sensing and same thing. They are very, very active in Texas. And he said, you know, a lot of people are concerned about question of environment there, whereas you wouldn't really think of Texans as being.

G (03:46.39)
Mm -hmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (04:10.446)
the most environmentally concerned clients. But again, it maybe also depends on what region of that state because Texas is basically the size of France, right? Yeah.

G (04:16.982)
is big. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it depends on the, you know, I mean, Austin, for example, is, you know, you have a lot of people from outside of Texas who moved there, you know, a lot of people from California are moving to Texas, as well for business or tax reasons. So that's definitely mixing, you know, the population of the state and so you can see, you know, different trends for sure.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (04:27.148)
Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (04:34.19)
Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (04:41.454)
Yeah, exactly. And I think personally, I think Austin is like the new Silicon Valley because so many people are flocking to it. Yeah. Okay. Now let's talk a little bit about your decision to launch directly in the U S now, if, if I remember correctly, you told me that you launched in the U S in 2018 and then afterwards you launched in Europe a year later. Is that correct? Okay. And so what was, what was the.

G (04:46.078)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

G (05:02.036)
Mm -hmm.

G (05:06.166)
Yeah, that's correct. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (05:10.478)
I guess the thinking or the strategy behind that decision to go directly into the US.

G (05:17.046)
I mean, first, you know, back then, all my connections were in the US. I didn't have many connections in Europe. So that was definitely one of the reasons. But also, it's the US market is that it's a tough market. But if you do it right, I mean, it can grow quite fast. And also, if you look at Europe or Asia, I mean, that's all a lot of the buyers in four stores.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (05:22.444)
Mm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (05:26.766)
Mmm, sure.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (05:43.566)
Right.

G (05:44.502)
are looking at the trends in the US. So if you have some business and good business in the US, it definitely helps you with your European and Asian businesses as well.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (05:58.838)
Hmm. Okay. Interesting. So it's kind of like it may, you know, succeed in, in the U S is almost like a kind of a credibility marker when you're going into other markets. Interesting. Okay. Right. Yeah. And so I, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

G (06:06.23)
Mm -hmm Yep

Yeah. And, and, and sorry. Yeah. Just for example, we, in fact, our first customer in the U S was REI. It's the largest outdoor chain in the U S and in the world. And in fact, all the big chains in Europe are always looking at what REI is doing. So being there the first year really helped us in fact, opening, opening some accounts, like in Germany, some big accounts because they saw us being at REI in the U S. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (06:20.494)
Mm. Right.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (06:38.798)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. REI is, my sister lives in Seattle. They have an REI shop and it's the first thing I always want to go visit when I go to Seattle. It is an awesome store. Okay. So you've been working in sort of both of the markets now. From your experience, I would say as a European, a French person coming to now work in the US,

G (06:44.436)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's awesome. Yeah.

G (06:56.918)
Hmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (07:07.022)
What have been some of the biggest differences that you've seen, I guess, between, this could be between France and the U .S. as a country, as the way things function, or even between, you know, customer relationships, doing business, things like that.

G (07:07.19)
Mm -hmm.

G (07:23.702)
Yeah, I think, I mean, first, when you come to the US, you have to consider that you don't know anything about the US because we have a tendency to think we know a lot of stuff. I mean, we're here in France or Europe almost every day about the US. But the way of thinking, working are very, very different. So you really have to come with an open mind and be ready to adapt yourself to the US market. And...

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (07:32.076)
Hmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (07:39.47)
Right, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (07:47.342)
Mmm.

Yeah, yeah.

G (07:52.662)
I mean, for example, you know, customer service in the US is key. I mean, customers are kings or, and you have to say yes to almost everything they ask for. So you have first to agree with it, to find the right balance. But this is something, for example, that we are trying to duplicate and do the same in Europe. And it's a good way also.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (07:58.478)
Mm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (08:16.204)
Mmm.

G (08:19.542)
Providing, I mean really focusing on customer service and your customer's expense in Europe is a good way also to differentiate yourself from other European brands or companies.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (08:23.372)
Mmm.

Right?

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (08:30.688)
Yeah, you know, customer service is one of the biggest, I think for me as I would say as an American living in France, I can definitely see a lot of differences between, you know, the way that you are treated as a customer. And I'm not saying this is true for all businesses. I don't want to make a giant generalization, but definitely, like you said, in the US, if you don't have that attitude that the customer is king,

G (08:41.524)
Mm -hmm.

G (08:49.077)
Mm -hmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (08:58.414)
You're going to have a lot of difficulty doing business with American clients because I feel like they do have high expectations of customer service. I don't know if, if that's your feeling. Yeah.

G (08:58.74)
Mm -hmm.

G (09:06.864)
yeah, that's, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, it's like, I mean, sometimes we have requests where you're like, okay, I mean, where is that coming from? But you're like, you know, I'd rather keep that customer and make him happy than, you know, instead of getting some bad reviews on the Google or on the website. So, so that's, you know, definitely something we are trying to focus on. And after it's just, you know, the way we talk, you know, in or, you know,

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (09:14.318)
All right.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (09:23.214)
Yeah, exactly.

G (09:34.102)
American people are very enthusiastic. So that's, you know, there is definitely a different level of enthusiasm between the US and France. You have to sometimes, I mean, in our French or European mind, you have to tone down some of the reactions to be at the right level. The very positive thing to me is that people here are not afraid to try.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (09:36.686)
Yeah. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (09:41.838)
right?

Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (09:53.998)
Mm. Right.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (10:03.438)
Hmm.

G (10:03.798)
So if they like what you show them, they're going to give it a try. And if it's working great, if it's not, you know, no problem, but at least they try where in Europe, it's definitely more challenging to have people take some risk. So that's one thing that, that I think is different as well. And then again, you know, I remember when we hired some, some of my bosses came from,

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (10:16.398)
Mmm, right, yeah.

G (10:29.696)
you know, my previous work experience, I came to the US, we had meetings with some customers and I could see that during the meeting our customers would tell some stuff and my boss would agree on some things and I was really surprised. And when we left, I'm like, I told him, I'm like, you know that when Jeff said that, he meant that. And my boss looked at me like, really? You know, and.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (10:31.148)
Mm -hmm, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (10:56.652)
Yeah.

G (10:57.014)
I think he would understand the English, but I don't think he was fully understanding the meaning of what the guy meant. So again, you have to really be careful, listen as much as possible to make sure that you understand. But I would say that's true in every country you go to. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (11:04.056)
Mm. All right.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (11:13.516)
Mmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (11:17.742)
Sure, sure. Yeah. And I don't know if you have some examples, but you know, for maybe that, that's a very good situation of where you can, you know, you can hear the words that they're saying, but then the question is, do you understand the meaning behind that? And I don't know, is there any examples that you can think of where there has been some confusion between the words that were said or what you heard or what maybe someone you know heard and what was the actual meaning? I guess any kind of like...

G (11:28.34)
Mm -hmm.

G (11:40.596)
Mm -hmm.

G (11:46.486)
Well, I mean, to come back to that example is, you know, in the US, when you sell to stores and our industry, very often you offer some employee deals. So for the employees to buy your products at a low price. And the guy was talking about 50 % off and my boss thought it was 50 % off the retail price. And the guy was talking about 50 % off the wholesale price.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (11:46.894)
communication confusions there.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (12:15.822)
Mmm, right.

G (12:17.142)
So that's a big difference. Because that concept is not very strong in Europe, my boss didn't think about the potential of giving 50 % of the wholesale price, which is basically less than what we sell to the store to. But yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (12:19.662)
Yeah. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (12:25.102)
Mm, right, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (12:33.036)
Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (12:37.038)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think, yeah, one of the, speaking of prices, I believe in France, I'm not sure if it's the same in Europe, but there's regulations around how much discount you can give on a product. In the US, I feel like it's not the case. I mean, if you give the discount you want to give, and if you're going to lose money, well, that's your problem. It's, yeah.

G (12:38.87)
Mm -hmm.

G (12:52.502)
Mm -hmm.

G (13:01.366)
Yeah, exactly. Basically, you can do whatever you want. I mean, the good thing though on pricing is, you know, in Europe and especially with online business, it's different. I mean, you're not allowed to dictate your retail price. So sometimes it's difficult to manage. In the US, if you sell a product hundred dollars, you can ask all your retailers to sell at

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (13:18.924)
Mm.

G (13:26.14)
$100 as well. And if they don't follow the rules, you can call them on ask them to go back to the to the price and If they don't want to do it then you can say, okay, I'm not selling to you anymore so that's that that makes that makes things a lot easier to you know control your brand control pricing online and

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (13:27.35)
Mmm.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (13:37.678)
it right yes it

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (13:45.902)
Interesting, yes, so that's a very helpful tip I think for anyone who might be thinking about setting up and selling online or with some retailers in the US. Now, talking a little bit about the branding and how you communicate around your products. Now, the first question is, do you have a different message and do you have different, I would say marketing, communication, positioning for...

G (13:53.11)
Mm -hmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (14:14.03)
the US market versus the European market or is it the same?

G (14:17.59)
We try to, in the US, to be as American as possible in our communication. So we do more and more photo shoots in the US, for example. We have someone in the US doing all our communication and text and content. And...

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (14:25.902)
Okay, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (14:38.734)
Mmm.

G (14:40.768)
In France, we will sometimes talk about France, being from Annecy, which is where our headquarters is. But so we try to adapt for sure. And it's the US consumer, I think they are willing to buy foreign brands. But again, you have to make it as easy as possible for them.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (14:48.75)
Right, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (15:06.926)
Right, yeah. And so do you, I guess, do you communicate around the fact that you're a French company made in France or I don't know where you actually produce the shoes, but designed in France or is there any kind of communication where you put that sort of French identity forward? And I ask that question because it is often a question that comes up with clients is, you know,

G (15:19.35)
Mm -hmm.

G (15:31.254)
Mm -hmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (15:34.062)
Can I communicate about the fact that we're French and use that as a marketing argument?

G (15:38.774)
Yeah, I think it really depends on your market and positioning to, you know, where we are positioned today, we are, I would say the mid level in terms of pricing. And, you know, we are, yeah, we are at the same kind of positioning in terms of price as US brands. And so I think the French factor or, you know, the French stuff really plays

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (15:43.278)
Mmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (15:58.51)
Mm -hmm, sure.

G (16:08.31)
when you are in the higher end or luxury markets. I used to sell some ski brands in the US and one of them was the brand Keeley from Jean Claude Keeley. But it was very high end. We were selling jackets at $2 ,000 or more. And that consumer was really interested in the fact that it was coming from France.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (16:11.982)
Mmm, right.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (16:22.924)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (16:28.942)
Mmm. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (16:36.846)
Okay, yeah.

G (16:38.07)
But at the same time, I was selling some other brands competing with the US brands and people didn't care. So, you know, we were, you know, and that was one of the challenges we had where the brand was really in the, in its communication, really focused on the, you know, the French apps, you know, everything about France. And in fact, I, you know, after a few seasons, the guys in the US and the buyers were like, okay, you know, you don't have any other story to tell.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (16:44.942)
Yeah, sure.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (16:58.67)
Right, yeah.

G (17:07.048)
So, yeah, so for us, I mean, we really don't communicate about France in the US. Again, we try to be as American as we can. And, but, you know, if you, we started to sell like last year in Korea and the Korean market really is in demand for French products. So there we communicate a lot more about France than we can hear.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (17:07.182)
Right.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (17:12.91)
Mmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (17:24.494)
Mm -hmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (17:30.574)
Okay, interesting.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (17:34.734)
Right, okay, interesting. So yeah, so if you're in, I guess it's, you you sit down and you think about, well, what are sort of the typical, maybe almost stereotypical French industries? It is things like luxury, fashion, food, et cetera. There it would make sense that that would have a kind of an added value. But if you're, like you said, sort of a mid -range product,

G (17:46.39)
Mm -hmm.

G (17:52.086)
Food. Yeah.

G (18:03.126)
Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (18:03.5)
you know, maybe it doesn't really matter. Yeah, yeah, interesting. Right, yeah.

G (18:05.664)
Yeah. And for example, for us, when I worked in the outdoor industry and the ski industry, a lot of, in fact, ski brands initially came from Europe. So all the stores, the buyers, they were always used to buy French or European brands. If you look at the outdoor market, there are tons of brands, US brands already.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (18:12.397)
Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (18:18.606)
Mmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (18:25.1)
Right.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (18:32.268)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

G (18:33.34)
So the fact that you are coming from Europe, if you don't have a product advantage or something different, they don't really see why they would buy a European brand. They often have one or two in their mix just to have them different, but it's not really a strong focus.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (18:41.228)
Mmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (18:48.844)
Yeah, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (18:54.528)
Okay, right. Like it's not a strong enough argument that would make, you know, let's say you've got an American brand and a French brand, pretty similar prices, pretty similar, you know, it's not going to make a difference in that buying decision.

G (19:02.358)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we launched, you know, at sometimes we were selling sleeping bags and we launched a very light sleeping bag. And there was none in the in the US market at the time. So, I mean, our business like took off like, you know, really crazy. We become the number one market for the brands, the US market. But then after, I mean, US brands starting to do similar bags, and then we lost momentum because then they, you know, why?

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (19:21.24)
right, nice. Yeah.

Good, yeah. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (19:32.27)
Right.

G (19:35.542)
we have to bother to buy from a brand that's not that known because the product differentiation was not there anymore.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (19:39.456)
Mmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (19:43.406)
Right. Yeah. You've got, you know, other competitors doing similar things. And so your unique, your uniqueness, just kind of, kind of disappeared. And I would say, maybe what for you in your experience, what have been maybe some of the most positive things about doing business in the U S and then of course, I'm going to ask you also some of the most negative things about doing business in the U S or with Americans, let's say.

G (19:46.966)
Yeah, nice, yeah, yeah.

G (20:05.046)
Hmm

G (20:09.846)
Yeah. Some of the positive things again, it's, I mean, first it's, I mean, I love working with American because the relationship is very simple and very straightforward. So it's like, you know, they can say yes or no, it's no, you know, it's no hard feelings and we can just move forward. Again, they are willing to try and give a chance to new brands, new products. So I would say that's really,

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (20:27.788)
Mm.

Right.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (20:33.868)
Mm -hmm.

G (20:39.708)
something that's very interesting and exciting. It's also, I mean, within the US, you definitely have some pretty strong cultural differences. For example, if you look at, you know, New England and California, I mean, the experience is very, very different. You know, to me it's like a...

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (20:44.012)
Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (20:50.742)
Mmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (20:57.932)
Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (21:02.999)
Hmm.

G (21:05.334)
If you are working in Europe with Scandinavian and someone from Southern Europe, it's very different. Yeah, for sure. And then, I mean, the negative points. I don't know. Yeah, sure.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (21:11.15)
Okay, right, yeah. It's totally different cultures, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (21:21.806)
Can I ask you a question about the cultural differences before we get into the negative points? Like you said, there are very big cultural differences. Do you take that into consideration in things like marketing, working with clients, et cetera, or does it really not make a difference in your, I guess, your strategy?

G (21:26.708)
Mm -hmm.

G (21:45.622)
I mean, marketing, not too much. I mean, and we are not at a size where we can anyway. I would say again, you have to, you know, if you go on the East coast in New England, then you're going to travel with some sales reps to school and see some clients very often. I mean, you have the whole schedule ready ahead of time. You know, where are you going to? You go to California, you have no idea what's going to happen. And then.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (21:49.934)
Sure. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (22:04.236)
Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (22:10.254)
We'll find out.

G (22:12.022)
And but things happen, but it's not it's not definitely not the same thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (22:16.974)
Okay, interesting. So kind of at the maybe the macro level of your communications and your marketing and all of that, not really going to make an impact. But then when you get really on that micro level about interacting with people, it's there where you're going to see the differences. Okay, that's a very interesting insight.

G (22:23.028)
Mm -hmm.

G (22:29.846)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there and also on the product side. I mean, we're going to sell a lot more colorful products in the Rockies on the West Coast, where basically if you go to New England, if you have brown, black, and gray, you're pretty good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (22:35.69)
Okay.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (22:43.308)
Hmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (22:49.549)
You're good. Right. Okay. Interesting. Very interesting. Yeah. Okay. And going back to, yes, maybe some of the, some of the, the negative points that you've seen about working in the U S or doing business with Americans.

G (23:04.65)
Sometimes it's, you know, I would say communication where, you know, people don't get back to you. So that's, you know, in Europe, I would say people, yeah, people get back to you. You know, it might take some time, but at least at some point they get back to you. We have had like some sales reps you're working with and suddenly you don't hear anything from them.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (23:12.3)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, I've heard that. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (23:20.886)
Yeah?

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (23:31.118)
Yeah. Yeah.

G (23:31.338)
You try to email, call, they don't get back to you and that's it. Things are done.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (23:35.342)
And that's it. And what do you do in that? I mean, how do you guys handle that if you don't, if you maybe if you're willing to share that information?

G (23:43.158)
I mean, at some point, I mean, if just to sometimes it happened that I stopped paying commissions to for them to get to call me back because, you know, and in fact, I mean, sometimes it works. Sometimes they didn't call back. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say that's some frustration sometimes about that. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (23:51.694)
Yeah, OK, yeah. And does that work?

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (23:57.326)
They, okay, yeah. Hmm. Interesting. Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (24:05.39)
Yeah, okay, right. Are there any other frustrations?

G (24:09.62)
Not much, not much, no, no. Yeah, yeah. Mm -hmm, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (24:11.094)
Okay, so more of the communication and not getting back to, yeah, right. Okay. And just to wrap up, is there any, I guess this is kind of a question I've started asking at the end of all of the episodes is, is there a piece of advice or something that you wish you had known when you were starting out in the U S that you would like to share with someone?

G (24:33.27)
Mm -hmm.

G (24:39.414)
I think, I mean, and that's something I've experienced during COVID is it's either you're committed to the US or you're not. And either you can have a local presence or not. Working with the US from Europe and not being able to come and come that often is very difficult to manage. And I would say, you know, both the retailers, your sales reps, you know, the consumers need to...

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (24:44.27)
Mm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (24:49.324)
Mmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (25:02.156)
Mmm.

G (25:09.174)
to see some really strong commitment to the US market. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (25:13.102)
Okay, right. Yeah, I think that's good advice. It's not something you can kind of do halfway. Right.

G (25:19.252)
No, no, and it's definitely an expensive market. The cost of living, the cost of doing business is way more expensive than France. To give you an example, I mean, we organized some photo shoots here in the US, and it was close to four times more expensive than doing one in France. And I would say it's kind of the, like, I would say at least,

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (25:28.108)
Right, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (25:41.996)
Yeah.

G (25:47.55)
twice but it's very often three times more expensive to do stuff here than in Europe.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (25:52.782)
And yeah, exactly. It's, I remember I had a client to, I think they were in California, somewhere, somewhere on the West coast anyway. And she was telling me, she said, yeah, you know, my husband, I make, so it was like something like 12 ,000 a month. My husband makes 10 ,000 a month. We barely get by. yeah. Whereas if you're making that in France, you're totally rich. So yeah. Right.

G (26:01.492)
Yeah.

G (26:12.086)
Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And but the thing is, we, I mean, because when you look at salaries, you know, because of the social system is very different, as you know, from the US and so you have to put money aside for your kids schools for retirement, you know, so your gross income might be a lot more. But when you start paying or saving, you know, everything you have to just to get the same stuff as in.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (26:25.676)
Hmm.

Exactly.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (26:36.716)
Yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (26:41.196)
Yeah.

G (26:42.934)
in France, it's a big difference for sure.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (26:46.318)
Exactly. It's a lot of the stuff that is paid for in France, you know, by the taxes and the higher rate of taxes in the social system. Just remember that you're going to be paying that out of your own pocket in the US. So, yeah.

G (26:50.294)
Mm -hmm. Yep.

Mm -hmm.

G (26:58.71)
Yeah, for sure. No, so it's, I mean, you see, I mean, that's one of the challenges for a brand or for even for a younger brand to be in the US is to be able to hire people because I mean, as soon as you hire someone good, the cost can be really, really big. So for us, we decided to keep in fact all our...

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (27:13.046)
Mm.

Yeah.

G (27:22.8)
operations in France, that's where it's in place, and we are building more of the marketing and sales side just for the US. But there are some things that you can definitely manage from France. But again, if you come to the US, you have to commit to it and you have to be ready for pretty heavy budgets. Yeah, sure, sure.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (27:23.916)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Okay, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (27:31.062)
Mmm, yeah, makes sense.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (27:36.79)
Hmm.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (27:46.68)
Yeah, yeah, like you like prepare, prepare well your finances, right? Okay, great. All right, Guillaume, thank you very much. And before we finish, where can people find you, find out about your products, connect with you?

G (28:00.576)
The easiest is on our website at sayola .com or then you can reach out to us if you want to see if you have some local retailers around.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (28:06.542)
Mm -hmm, yeah.

Christina Rebuffet-Broadus (28:13.934)
Okay, great. Sounds good. And I'll put all the links to the website and everything in the notes for the podcast. And Guillaume, thank you very much for coming on, for sharing your experience and have fun out in Colorado. Thanks.

G (28:28.31)
Yeah, thank you.